Editor's Note:
This is an edited transcript of the interview.

Helen Clark is New Zealand's first elected Prime Minister.

	This is a job you die for in politics.
Helen Clark about being Prime Minister

SHANKAR: Helen Clark, New Zealand's first elected Prime Minister, welcome to In Conversation.

HELEN: Thank you.

SHANKAR: So shall I call you the Queen of this beehive?

HELEN: Well, (laughs) it has somewhat been used before.

SHANKAR: Well, you've certainly been the longest serving MP too in New Zealand, haven't you?

HELEN: The longest serving woman MP, right at the moment, that's right. I am in my 20th year in the New Zealand power. I have seen lot of people come and go. Well, I am still here.

SHANKAR: Well, I believe you are also therefore called Mother of the House.

HELEN: That is true, Mother of the House. However, the Father of the House has now been in politics for 34 years. So, he's got a few years on me.

SHANKAR: A head start of you there.

HELEN: A head start (both laugh)

SHANKAR: You might as well catch up the way you are doing. How does it feel to be right at the top in New Zealand?

HELEN: Well, it's a long way to the top, but it's a great job. Best job I've had. I have done a lot of jobs in politics; some of them pretty miserable like being leader of the opposition. But this is the job you die for in politics.

SHANKAR: Well it's a far cry from teaching at the University.

HELEN: Well, it is and it isn't. The university common room is everybody's political place as the chamber of Parliament in my experience. But sure, the public profile is so much higher.

SHANKAR: But at this point in time New Zealanders did voice rather critically I would say, your relations with Australia undergoing all sorts of things. Prime Minister of Australia was also here recently … John Howard ... have you been able to sort out your immigration problems with them?

HELEN: Australia is New Zealand's closest friend, no question about. And we see eye to eye on very very many things. There are some differences of view, of course, as you would expect between friends. By and large I don't see substantial problems in the relationship. We just cleared away social security issues, which frankly was causing a lot of bother because so many more New Zealander are bound to live in Australia than the other way round. And Australia is frankly tired of paying for it and who can blame it. So we dealt with that issue and I think that will hope restore that relationship to 1000% good that they usually are.

SHANKAR: Well, in what way then it is a win win situation for both New Zealand and Australia? I've seen the newspapers in New Zealand. They all claim that it's a win-win situation. That is what the government is saying. From what you are saying, it sounds as if this is what Australia wanted and New Zealanders are losing out.

HELEN: No, the New Zealand government isn't prepared to lose out any longer by having demands that we should pay hundreds of millions of dollars for social security for Kiwis in Australia. We don't pay hundred of millions of dollars for New Zealanders who go to live in the US, Singapore, Japan, Britain anywhere else. Why should we follow New Zealanders to Australia and say here's your own benefits, here's your single parent benefit, here's your sickness benefit? I mean this is ridiculous. If Kiwis go aboard, they gonna expect to stand on their own feet and live within the rules of a new society.

SHANKAR: So, it's money then, the New Zealand government will gain.

HELEN: Oh yes, we save under this agreement, probably about a $100 million over the next three years. But of course we had to continue to insist that Australian government pay social security in other areas to New Zealanders we could have expected to be presented with rather large bills.

SHANKAR: But the issue is not money, is it? The issue really is why are so many New Zealanders leaving New Zealand and going out.

HELEN: Tell me a country in the world which isn't having its skilled and educated people sucked off. The United States economy has been such a power house, it's attracted the best and the varieties from all the world. New Zealand is no exception to that. Just as we lose to Australia, we lose to States and other places. However we do attract backend and one of the great things over the past year has been to see renewed interest in migration back to New Zealand and if you live in New Zealand as a place to live. OK we don't pretend that our salaries are at American levels. But what we do offer is a place that is a lot safer for families to bring their kids up in. A place with the best physical environment in the world and sophisticated and culturally interesting and diverse cities, it's a good place to live in.

SHANKAR: What about the economy? Doesn't the economy need to provide migrants who come to New Zealand for instance, benefits and, facilities that are not matched? I believe now in the last one month or so you have had a tremendous outflow of people who have come to New Zealand. They are now rushing to Australia, so that they can catch this change before it changes.

HELEN: Well, that can't be substantiated. That's gossip on the front of a newspaper. And certainly this being concern of Australia that people might have been coming to New Zealand getting citizenship and then going through the back door to Australia. That has been a concern on Australia's mind. But I would say to people migrating to New Zealand to do your research. Look at whether the qualification you have is one that the New Zealand economy needs. I ran into someone who have been an associate professor in linguistics in a country overseas, came to New Zealand couldn't get work in that field. Would you be surprised that there are very few such positions in New Zealand? So people have to be a bit realistic. There are plenty of jobs in New Zealand plenty of vacancies with people skills in certain areas and its up to migrants to research whether they fit into that.

SHANKAR: But, is there also a problem that the New Zealand government needs to succeed because you do need people to come in and settle in New Zealand? And then if you do have a system whereby it is easy for someone to migrate to New Zealand you need to also evaluate more carefully whether that person would be able to find a suitable job here or contribute to the New Zealand economy?

HELEN: Yes, that's why we are putting more emphasis on the labour market needs and vacancies. And of course, it's always a place for the entrepreneurial person who has an idea for a business which could succeed in New Zealand.

SHANKER: So are there any new laws that you are thinking of, because Australia has been pushing it actually to have a common border?

HELEN: No, we won't have a common border. You see, this is quite a fundamental difference in that New Zealand has visa free arrangements with a great many countries. We think that actually helps us market tourism destinations. Australia on the other hand doesn't allow visitors from anywhere but New Zealand to come in without a visa. We find it quite economically damaging to attract such an approach.