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Editor's
Note:
This is an un-edited transcript of the interview.
 I
came to power not by means of weapons but by the ballot
of the people.
Feared
and revered. Plain living and chain smoking. A chess
enthusiast with a sharp and cunning mind.
Cambodian
Prime Minister Hun Sen is described as a canny, populist
politician but also one with a volcanic temper and little
patience for views that contradict his own.
He
once served as a local army commander of the reviled
Khmer Rouge.
Then
went on to help lead the Vietnamese forces that ousted
the murderous regime.
After
engineering a bloody coup against his rival in 1997,
he became Prime Minister and earned the title The Grand
Strategist.
But
did you know he began life in a peaceful Buddhist pagoda?
And
despite having hated America, his own son is a graduate
of West Point, and currently doing a Masters in Economy
at New Yok Univesity?
Shankar
find outs more about the man, his contradictions and
convictions.
Today,
the Cambodian capital Phnom Penh appears to
be a peaceful, developing town. But the obvious
material improvements cannot completely hide
the skeletons of the past.
During
the Khmer Rouge reign of terror from 1975 to
1979, 1.7 million Cambodians died through extermination,
starvation, or overwork, in a social experiment
engineered by top leader Pol Pot.
 At
killing fields like these, entire families were
buried.
When
Vietnamese troops invaded and drove the Khmer
Rouge from power in 1979, hundreds of skulls
were collected and displayed.
The
UN organised elections in 1993 but the system
of having 2 co-prime ministers - Prince Norodom
Ranariddh and Hun Sen - only resulted in political
infighting.
Hun
Sen staged a bloody coup in 1997 and allegedly
bought votes to win elections the following
year.
Three
years after democracy was restored peace is
still a remote concept for many Cambodians.
Pol
Pot died in 1998 but most of his old comrades
are still alive and free after surrendering
to the government.
Cambodia
and the UN agreed on how to try former Khmer
Rouge leaders
more than a year ago and legislation to create
a tribunal was approved early
this year by Cambodia's parliament.
But
Prime Minister Hun Sen sent the law back to
the government in mid-February to have all death
penalty references removed as Cambodia does
not have capital punishment.
The
process has been stalled since then.
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Shankar: Mr Hun Sen, welcome
to In Conversation. Your critics say it is your ruthlessness
which brought you to power. Is that true?
Hun
Sen: That is something all the people might think.
But you can take note of leaders of the world who are
ruthless for how long they can survive. I don't think
any regime is ruthless and more barbaric than the Pol
Pot regime. But that regime could only survive for three
years, eight months and 20 days. So it can win the war
that barbarity dictatorship cannot survive.
I am in a seat that has been in Cambodia against order
of four or 54 political parties. Especially the 39 parties
that joined the election. So I come to power not by
means of weapons but by the ballot of the people.
I think you should better pose the question that if
a leader is ruthless, how could he be voted by the people.
Shankar:
Well but then why are you protecting the ruthless killers
of Khmer Rouge and not trying them?
Hun
Sen: That is the just the comment of some people
including yourself. But you may ask who dismantled the
Khmer Rouge organisation, who arrested the leaders of
the Khmer Rouge and put them in custody for the trial
and who drafted the law for the trial the Khmer Rouge
leaders in which now we table in our National Assembly.
I
would like to stress with that, it was those people
that charge Hun Sen not to bring Khmer Rouge leaders
to trial that you extend support and assistance to the
Khmer Rouge. For me my whole life I have been fighting
against the Khmer Rouge, trying to dismantle the Khmer
Rouge.
As
a humankind whether it is a man or woman, one have to
accept the realities, otherwise one would not fear the
past, the present and the future.
Shankar:
But you said the Khmer Rouge lasted three years. But
they have lasted now for 30 years in peace without being
tried for one reason or another. The main problem is
the delay in trying them. Why so?
Hun
Sen: If it is all in the hands of Hun Sen, those
Khmer Rouge leaders have already been tried. You may
ask who disturb us. Whether it's the UN, you may know
that. UN has been allowing the Khmer Rouge to be seated
there for 10 years. And then later they disturb us,
until at this last stage that they could reach an agreement
with us.
And
now it's is now with the National Assembly in which
they need to debate on the law and the National Assembly
is not Hun Sen's alone. If it is Hun Sen alone those
leaders have already been tried.
Now I am the person that is most concerned about this
case because if we further delay this case, Thamok who
is the former commander-in-chief of the Khmer Rouge
might die and all the leaders of the Khmer Rouge which
are now awaiting to be charged by the court of law might
also die.
Shankar:
But then, the trial will take a long time and the international
community is interested also to play a part which you
do not want. How do you want to solve that problem?
Hun
Sen: Now everything has been resolved. We have been
giving what the international community would like to
have. That is the trial to be carried out by the national
court of law of Cambodia with the participation of foreign
judge and prosecutor.
Because
of what the international community would like to involve
that the process has been delayed. If it is given to
just the court of Cambodia the trial has already done.
Shankar:
Do you think that this will lead to national reconciliation
in Cambodia? Will justice be done?
I ask this because the courts are known to be very corrupt
in Cambodia. That is the impression from outside.
Hun
Sen: I think if the Cambodian court of law is corrupted,
it's better not to have Cambodia whether you share this
idea.
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