Editor's Note:
This is an edited transcript of the interview.

The trial and conviction of former Philippine president Joseph Estrada is almost just a memory for many. But for some like Ricardo Romulo, there are moments in the saga that are hard to forget.

In December last year, the Philippine Senate was in the midst of an impeachment trial against the former president. During the trial, an officer of Equitable Bank, where Estrada maintained an account, testified that she saw Estrada sign a document transferring 500 million pesos from his account to that of his friend William Gatchalian. In doing that, Estrada allegedly committed two criminal violations: first, he used the false name of Jose Velarde.

Second, his 500 million account was reported to be part of his ill-gotten wealth.
It was the testimony of that officer, Senior Vice President Clarissa Ocampo that sealed the fate of Estrada, who today is behind bars facing charges of graft and plunder.

Just before Ocampo's explosive testimony, the bank's chairman George Go resigned and Vice Chairman Ricardo Romulo took over. Romulo gave the go-signal for Ocampo's testimony. By a twist of fate, Romulo was also chairman of the anti-Estrada Makati Business Club and a partner in a law firm whose lawyers helped as prosecutors in the impeachment case.Because of all this, Estrada has accused Romulo of leading a conspiracy to oust him.

Shankar: Mr Ricardo Romulo, chairman of the Makati Business Club here in the Philippines, welcome to In Conversation.

Romulo: Thank you.

Shankar: Am I talking to the mastermind that ousted President Estrada?

Romulo: Well you're talking to a mind but not the mastermind. By any means, because in my opinion at least a spontaneous that arose after the revelations of Mr Chavit Singson. The president's participation in other word, the illegal gambling that we called jueteng that goes all over the Philippines. I think after that people began to think about Mr Estrada's resignation. And we did are not master minding that at all.

Shankar: Well you did try to make sure that President Estrada would be ousted. And there one other curious way in which you were very closely involved with this whole thing. You were the Chairman of the Equitable Bank. How much were you in the know of Jose Velarde account belonging to Joseph Estrada?

Romulo: I'll reveal to you for the first time what my actual involvement was. When I assumed the Chairmanship of the bank that was the 19th of December. In fact that was after President Arroyo addressed our group as Vice-President.

The following day my first meeting with senior staff told me that there are documents here which would be devastating for the President. And I said to them immediately, fine, I don't want to see it.

Don't show it to me because I know what they will say. They will blame me if that is ever revealed. That's number one. Number two, they said, well we have the witnesses. I said, I don't want to talk to them. Don't even tell me the names at this point. We leave that be. I said: "What is the status?" They said: "Well we have forwarded under seal envelope number 2 which contains actually the savings ledger of the savings account." I said: "And what does that mean?" Well, they said: "Anyone familiar with banking would see that there was a debit of 500 million pesos". He said: "The key there is the word debit. That will mean that it stayed within the system. It was not a withdrawal in other words. And from there, they will eventually fall on the trust account because they will ask where is it? So we will be forced to them that there is a trust account." So I said: "Fine then let's take it the normal course. Do nothing else." So, then I heard nothing more. Then a few days later, as the impeachment trial was going on, I get a call early in the morning. We would like to see you in your office right here. So I said, fine come.

Again, two of the senior officers came and said: "Clarissa Ocampo." "Yes," I said. "Who is Clarissa Ocampo?" Although I know she is the Head of the Trust Department. Well, she has decided to want to talk to the prosecutors and we have gone ahead and accompanied her two days ago. She told the whole story and so I said: "I only have one question. Does she know what she's doing? Does she know what she's getting into?" I said: "This is a bombshell."

Shankar: This is Clarissa Ocampo, the person who said she saw President Estrada sign as Jose Velarde ?

Romulo: Yes. And they said: "Well, she's prepared. I said: "Well what brought this about?" I have to make it clear, she has been indirectly subpoenaed. Because you see this subpoena issued was very brought. It said, to the custodian of documents with regard to account number such and such and all related documents, which included her. So, they said: "Yes, yes she's prepared." I said: "What brought this about? I thought we were going to wait for the normal course of things." He said: "Well one of the President's lawyer went to see her and said: "You must protect the President at all cost." He said: "That frightens her. And she felt then that her life is in danger. And that the best way for her to protect herself was to reveal what she knew."

Shankar: Who was this lawyer?

Romulo: His last name is Chua. I think the first name is Francis or Fernando, I can't remember. But this is - the lawyer who was involved on behalf of Mr Estrada in creating the trust agreement and I think one of the witnesses in fact. So, I said: "Apart from her, who else witnessed the signing?" He said: "Well, the Legal Consul of the bank, Mr Curato." I said: "He's willing to testify equally?" He said, yes - the both of them. He will corroborate her testimony. So I said, well I've no objection. Go ahead. Anyway what can I do if she wants to proceed, I said? But of course you have my blessings. So that's really what happened.

Shankar: Now that crucial evidence - that Clarissa Ocampo gave of having what the President's signed as Jose Velarde, you went ahead and gave go ahead for her to go and testify. And that was damning evidence against the President at that time. Now Joseph Estrada accuses you of revealing documents to the impeachment trial...

Romulo: That's right. And he's wrong because it's not clear in the public account of this thing is that when we sent the first so-called first envelope which contained the checking account of Jose Velarde. That signature card also contained the cross-reference to the savings. In fact that's why the bank officer followed it with a second envelope because they knew that it would be clear. It's what locally is called a combination account. A combo account - where you have a current and savings at the same time. So they did forward the second envelope containing the savings aspect of the account. Because at that time they were under a threat of contempt because the impeachment court thought they were withholding evidence on the first envelope.

Shankar: But how did they get to the point of knowing that there are these documents existing at all? Were you instrumental in getting that information across?

Romulo: No. I just want to establish that the subsequent happenings actually were covered by the subpoena. Because I said: "When they subpoena us it was a broad subpoena which had all relevant documents in connection with the checking account." Well it is very obvious to us that all of those documents were part of it and the custodian was Mrs Ocampo. But as I related earlier, I thought that it would take its due course. But well, it happened what happened."