He lost a S$30,000 loan from his dad, pulled up his socks and rebuilt Talking Toes

If you were to ask me whether I have dreamed of running my own business and being my own boss, my answer would be simple: I am much happier as a regular employee, drawing a steady pay cheque. 

The truth is, as someone who is risk-averse, starting a business is high on my list of things I would rather not do. Make the wrong decision or trust the wrong person and that is probably the end of everything. At least, that is how I see it. 

Some people, however, are braver and more resilient, able to bounce back after adversity and failure. Mr Lucas Saw, the 31-year-old chief executive officer of Singapore socks brand Talking Toes, is one such person.

In his mid-20s, he faced what felt like a betrayal by a business partner, lost a hefty sum of about S$30,000 and could not make further headway in the company.

Yet he did not give up. He was determined to build a brand because he believed in it. 

Mr Saw told CNA TODAY that Talking Toes is now a thriving business with a six-figure annual turnover. The brand is known for the cute designs and pun-filled, uplifting text on its socks, which resonate with customers who want a touch of positivity and personality in their everyday wear.

I met him at his humble office space near Marymount MRT Station, where he and his team were just getting ready for a photoshoot of an upcoming product launch, that of supermarket-themed socks. 

The collection, just like other Talking Toes socks designed by Mr Saw and his team, features playful motifs such as orange juice, tomato ketchup and lemons, paired with cheerful sayings such as “Juice do it”, “Don’t bottle up your feelings” and “Squeeze the day”.

“We love puns. So we put puns into the positive messages to make you smile,” he said.

The strategy worked. The socks on display had me ooh-ing and aah-ing over them before we started the interview. 

I would later learn that these were the "ingredients of success" Mr Saw envisioned for the brand: A simple pair of socks made special by empowering messages and charming designs. 

Looking at where he is now, it is hard to imagine the obstacles that he had to surmount to reach this point. 

THE FIRST STEPS WITH TALKING TOES

Talking Toes was started in 2016 by his friend, even though Mr Saw is now the sole face fronting the brand.

Mr Saw, who was a freelancer in the creative sector at the time after graduating from polytechnic, joined the company about six months after it was founded, taking charge of the creative side of the business. 

His friend-turned-business partner focused on the business and operational decisions. 

The socks then were simpler versions of the ones seen today. They featured cookie-cutter patterns such as polka dots and stripes, paired with short messages such as “Celebrate life” and “Blessed”. 

Mr Saw, who had personal struggles with mental health when he was younger, said that the socks' concept struck a chord with him, and he believed that it would also resonate or appeal to others who have experienced similar struggles. 

"Another thing that stood out was the brand name, Talking Toes. It felt clever and perfectly captured the product itself (that there is a message at the wearer's feet). These elements caught my attention and made me believe in the brand’s potential." 

Being part of a business he believed in was an exciting experience, but the feeling gradually waned when Mr Saw realised that he and his friend had very different visions for the brand. 

“I could see Talking Toes becoming an international brand (and proposed strategies to move us towards that direction), but these strategies did not land well with my partner,” Mr Saw said. 

“We were very traditional. Our business development and marketing strategies were lacking. The main sales came from pop-up events, which weren’t enough to keep the business afloat.”

By 2018, Mr Saw was struggling to make ends meet as he was not getting paid for his work, so he decided to take on a full-time job in brand consultancy to cover his living expenses while his business partner dabbled in other ventures. At that point, it was just the two of them running the show.  

Talking Toes started feeling more like a hobby to Mr Saw than a viable business at that point, he added.

Then, in May 2019, everything changed. A distributor reached out to Mr Saw and his partner, opening the door to new opportunities. 

“It was a very exciting moment for me (because we finally) get to have someone to help us turn Talking Toes into a real business,” Mr Saw said.

NOT WHAT HE HAD EXPECTED

Although he had limited personal savings, Mr Saw was determined to grow the business through the new partnership, even borrowing S$30,000 from his father to get started.

For a while, the gamble seemed to pay off, because within months, Talking Toes socks made their way into major department stores, just as Mr Saw had envisioned.

“I eventually quit my full-time job in 2019, thinking it would all work out.”

The three of them had agreed at first to pool together S$100,000 in capital, but as time went on into 2020, Mr Saw felt like he was shouldering the financial burden of the business alone.

“I had already contributed my share of the capital, but (the others) didn’t follow through. I felt trapped.”

Then, he began to sense something was amiss when his salary was delayed for several months. This led to several intense discussions because he had no oversight over the revenue flow at the time.

The partnership eventually soured and just before it ended, Mr Saw said that he discovered S$30,000 in revenue – about a year's worth – had been lost.

"I was naive and much younger at the time," he added. "Looking back, there were red flags but I tried to wave them away with my own justifications, because I wanted to make it work. But in the end, it just didn’t."

TOO EMBARRASSED TO TELL DAD

Due to the cracks in the partnership, Mr Saw said that most of the department store deals for Talking Toes fell apart just before Christmas in 2020. 

His friend-turned-partner had already stepped back from the business sometime in mid-2020 due to difficulties in maintaining the partnership. 

“It felt like my world was crumbling. I had borrowed money from my dad, lost it and the business was in debt. I owed suppliers and suddenly found myself alone to shoulder everything,” Mr Saw recounted. 

Adding to the weight was the guilt he carried from losing his father's loan, since the amount he had lost in revenue was nearly the same as the S$30,000 he had borrowed from him.

“I was so embarrassed I couldn’t bring myself to tell him I lost his S$30,000 in less than a year.” 

After hitting rock bottom and grappling with anxiety, Mr Saw spent the next year pushing through each day with a singular focus: Saving the business and rebuilding what he had worked so hard to create in the sock designs.

I asked Mr Saw what made him persevere, because if it were me, I would have stepped away from the business world for a while to recover my finances and from the experience.

He said that he saw Talking Toes as a diamond in the rough. “I believed I could turn it into something meaningful, something I was proud of. That belief kept me going and I owed it to myself to give this another shot.” 

He did freelance work with his previous branding consultancy company to sustain himself financially during this time.

At this lowest point in his working life, his girlfriend became his pillar of strength and his friends rallied around him, and Mr Saw was thankful for that.

One friend introduced him to Mr Kim Giliam, an experienced strategic adviser from Australia, whose invaluable guidance played a key role in helping him relaunch Talking Toes and shaping it into what it is today. 

Mr Giliam introduced him to a new approach to business, emphasising the importance of cultivating strong relationships with partners and treating employees the way he would like to be treated.

TRANSFORMING THE BRAND

In 2021, Talking Toes relaunched after undergoing a complete transformation.

With expertise gained from the two to three years of work in branding consultancy, including working alongside chief executive officers, company founders and industry leaders, Mr Saw was ready to lead the business with a sharper vision.

“I (focused) on what was necessary to ensure Talking Toes’ success. I didn’t change the name because I loved it. Instead, I transformed Talking Toes from a simple commodity into a purposeful craft.”

Sustainability became a core value of the brand. Talking Toes shifted from regular cotton to organic cotton and it used sustainable materials for its shipments such as uncoated paper mailers made from recyclable paper.

Mr Saw also introduced a give-back programme, dedicating 10 per cent of gross profits to various causes tied to each sock design.

“For example, some socks support tree planting and others help with cat welfare. These initiatives allow us to turn what was once just a commodity into something meaningful.” 

The brand's relaunch in partnership with the Samaritans of Singapore marked a turning point. The not-for-profit organisation provides confidential emotional support to people facing a crisis, thinking about or affected by suicide.

Together, the two parties introduced collaborative sock designs featuring sunflowers and clouds with silver linings – symbols meant to give hope to people facing emotional struggles. The designs sold out quickly and prompted several rounds of restocking.

To appeal to a younger crowd, Mr Saw conducted research and focus-group interviews, adjusting Talking Toes’ offerings to target people born after 1981, namely millennials and Gen Zers. 

This strategy coincided with the rising trend of wearing “cute socks” that allowed wearers to express their personalities.

The brand’s bestsellers often include a nostalgic Singaporean element. The Good Morning athletic socks, inspired by the iconic Good Morning towel found in many households, have been a hit for two years in 2023 and 2024.

With an expanding online presence and partnerships with boutiques such as The Green Collective and Design Orchard, Talking Toes has flourished and its annual turnover "is on track" to crossing the seven-figure mark, Mr Saw said. 

A pair of Talking Toes socks typically costs around S$15.90. 

As a boss leading a tiny team of five, Mr Saw said that he once took on much of the creative work himself, but he now has the help of full-timers and an intern to craft the brand’s signature cute designs with puns.

He remains deeply involved, overseeing marketing campaigns and product development while personally managing the photography for most of Talking Toes' marketing efforts.

He briefly showed me his workspace, which is usually featured on the business' Instagram Reels, where he sometimes talks about the creative process behind certain designs. 

One of the more recent videos on the social media account featuring this workspace was of him and the director of coconut drink brand Mr Coconut revealing their latest collaboration. 

Seeing how lighthearted and jovial his videos are, I felt a surge of triumphant feeling for him. Despite being burned, losing his father’s money and watching his business crumble, he is thriving today, determined to make people smile with adorable-looking socks.

One question remained: Did his father ever find out about the money?

Mr Saw said that he finally mustered the courage to tell his father late last year and the response was unexpected. 

“He wasn’t very surprised, he didn't criticise me either. He’s very stoic, not very expressive. But he was supportive and that meant everything.”