Russians have to 'get out' of Ukraine and stop 'playing with lives' around the world, says foreign minister
Dmytro Kuleba also tells CNA that developing strong ties with ASEAN is a significant strategy for his country amid Russia's invasion.
PHNOM PENH: The best way for Ukraine to reopen negotiations with Russia is by pushing its invading forces out, said Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba on Friday (Nov 11), though he suggested that the prospect of meaningful talks with Moscow remains distant.
"(The Russians) have to get out of Ukraine," Mr Kuleba told CNA in an exclusive interview on the sidelines of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) Summit in Cambodia.
"They're speaking about negotiations … (But they’re) targeting everything from Ukrainian energy infrastructure, to a civilian with his hands tied behind his back. This is not how you behave when you want to negotiate," he said.
Mr Kuleba also urged Russian President Vladimir Putin's administration to stop playing "hunger games" with the world, by weaponising food.
He added that the Russians were "playing with lives of people" worldwide, including Asia, by blocking Ukraine's shipments to the global market and using Ukrainian grain as leverage, causing prices of food staples to soar.
DIPLOMACY WITH ASEAN
At the summit last Thursday Mr Kuleba signed, on behalf of Ukraine, the Treaty of Amity and Cooperation in Southeast Asia (TAC) – a peace pact among Southeast Asian countries, established by ASEAN founding members.
Developing strong ties with the 10-member regional bloc is among significant components of Ukraine’s Asia strategy, said Mr Kuleba.
Southeast Asia has traditionally been an important trade partner, he said, adding that ASEAN nations import a significant amount of Ukrainian corn and sunflower oil, and that many people from the region also study and live in Ukraine.
This is the first time Ukraine has been invited to the ASEAN Summit, and Mr Kuleba described the TAC treaty as a clear sign of support even as members try to maintain diplomacy with both his country and Russia.
"Coming from those countries of ASEAN, who are still trying to remain friends with both Russia and Ukraine and somehow sympathise (with) Russia, they still decided to support our accession which is a strong diplomatic symbol of support, and we appreciate it," he said.
ASEAN does not have a unified position on Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. In October, three members – Thailand, Laos and Vietnam – abstained from a United Nations General Assembly vote to condemn Russia’s annexation of four eastern regions of Ukraine.
UKRAINE SEES INCREASING SUPPORT FROM ASEAN
Mr Kuleba said that while some ASEAN countries have deep traditions of engagement with Russia - which might be difficult to sway - he is already seeing change happening.
He cited Cambodia as an example. While it exercised abstention and neutrality during Russia’s 2014 annexation of Crimea, the country switched its stance to supporting Ukraine after Russia’s invasion in February.Â
"Cambodia understands the scourge of war, because this country went through so much suffering," he said. "It makes perfect sense not because it likes Ukraine, but because it cares for its own country. It doesn't want anyone in ASEAN region, or broader in Asia, to follow the pattern of Russian behaviour."
Mr Kuleba hopes more countries can follow in Cambodia’s footsteps. Supporting Ukraine is about upholding principles of international law, territorial integrity and inviolability of borders, he said.
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He added that if Russia gets away with the invasion without consequences or without facing pressure from other countries, it will send a message to other aggressors that they, too, could follow suit and take other nations by force.
"If Russia gets away with what it has done, it will be a message to every other country in the world: Who wants to redraw borders by force? Who wants to invade? Who wants to commit atrocities?"
"By supporting Ukraine in this war, you are not taking the side of Ukraine, you are taking the side of international law and your own national interest … In the end, ASEAN will take, hopefully unanimously, the right side," he said.
LIBERATING KHERSON AND OTHER CITIES
Ukraine last week celebrated its success in retaking the city of Kherson from Russian forces. Kherson was the first major urban hub to fall after Russia’s invasion.
The capture of Kherson was one of Russia’s biggest military achievements since the start of the war, and its fall is a major setback for Moscow following a string of losses elsewhere in Ukraine.
The Ukrainians are now hoping to liberate the rest of their embattled country.
Mr Kuleba said that behind every joyous liberation was the "biggest tragedy" of devastation and atrocities left behind by the Russians, including destroyed infrastructure, torture chambers and mass graves of civilians.
Russian forces knocked out 40 per cent of Ukraine’s energy infrastructure last month, causing capital Kyiv and surrounding cities to suffer from blackouts and power outages ahead of winter.
Mr Kuleba said Russia’s strategy was to force Ukraine to yield by creating unbearable conditions for civilians, even those living in cities away from the frontlines.
He called for continued international support for Ukraine's air defence, to prevent more attacks on its energy grid.
Despite the hardship and the prospect of a prolonged war, Mr Kuleba said morale was "very high" among Ukrainians, with civilians willing to live with adversity in defence of their country.
"We have very high morale in the country. People understand what we are fighting for. Civilians are ready to endure hardships for the sake of liberating the country from the aggressor," he said.
"This war will end when Ukraine wins."
Watch the exclusive full interview with Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba on Nov 15, from 7am SIN/HK on CNA.